Guns and Chocolate Chip Cookies: The Answer to America’s Problems?
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One fairly hot topic around the country and in Eastern Idaho is the Issue of Gun Control. Always sure to warm things up, just bring this topic up at your next company picnic. The topic becomes even warmer and begins to get “red hot†just after any horrific “gun related†tragedy takes place somewhere in the Country, such as the terrifying incident that just took place in Virginia.
I know that many people in the United States see an incident like this as direct and irrefutable evidence that we have too many guns in this country and gun related violence has gotten out of hand. Well, I am about as pro-gun as a person can be, and I must tell you that I agree wholeheartedly. The world would be much nicer if the damn things had never been invented. But they were. They are here. By the millions.
Gun related violence is high in the US. Violence in general is a problem in the US. What is the answer? How do we stop it or slow it down. It is here where my opinions about Guns and Gun Control differ from many.
We need to get back to basics. We need to somehow, someway TRY to re-instill a sense of pride in being an American. We need to do something to encourage people to spend time with their children. Take them camping, hunting (yes, with guns) and fishing. Someone needs to be there for them when they get home from school to give them love and direction. This MUST be done, even if it means we live in a smaller home, and get rid of that $20,000 boat that we used twice last year. We need to TEACH our children how to be good decent citizens. To be accountable for what they do. To work hard. To be honest. To have values. To value human life. These things must be taught by parents. And as each generation is taught less, by a parent that understand these traits less than the parents that taught them – we slide in the wrong direction. The quality of the teacher gets worse with every generation. A teacher can only effectively teach what they themselves have been taught.
We try to put a band-aid on a chainsaw wound. We look for a quick fix for complicated problems. If it isn’t QUICK in the US today – we aren’t interested. This applies to everything from the food we eat to the computers we use. And the time we spend with our children. Quick, quick, quick. I got stuff to do! Fast food, fast traffic, fast Internet. We want everything done right now. Anything less is unacceptable. Well for the problem of violence in the US – quick and easy ain’t gona make it. It’s a big problem that requires a big effort, and will take some time. Taking my handgun away might be quick, but it isn’t going to solve a thing. I promise you.
Innocent people being shot in our schools? Ahhh, I know — get rid of all the guns, that’ll put a stop to it — quick! Well folks, it’s more complicated than that. First of all, never have we in our society been able to eradicate something by making it illegal. That doesn’t work. We have tried it with alcohol – didn’t work. Right now we have great “Cocaine Control†yet we really have no “control†over cocaine at all. We also have some pretty robust “Marijuana Control†in the United States. Guess what? Every High School in Idaho Falls who wants some can get it. Easy. Neither is under control. Neither ever will be. Every single US President since Kennedy has announced an “Official†War on Drugs. Guess what. We are losing. And after 40 years of fighting this little war of ours, I believe it’s now safe to say the war is over. We lost. We are just trying to keep a little “battle†going because we really do not know what else to do, and we can’t give up completely.
It’s all about supply and demand. As long as there is a demand for an item, someone WILL supply it. As sure as the sun is coming up in the morning – NO doubt about it. Because it’s all about money. And people really seem to dig money. And the more rare something is, the higher price people will pay to get it. But they WILL get it. Outlaw guns. Take them away from the honest people. Do you really believe that there will be one single criminal come forward and turn in his gun? The gun that before the ban was worth $200 is now worth $1000. And they WILL get the money to buy that expensive gun. Just as they do now for their expensive drugs. Regardless of how many dollars a day their habit costs – they steal – they sell their children – they do whatever they must to get what they want. They get most of the money from crime. There goes the crime rate, through the roof! The crooks have to commit more crimes to buy the expensive guns, which they can now use more freely because when they break into your home it’s a pretty safe bet that YOU DONâ€T HAVE A GUN! After all – YOU are an honest citizen. You turned your gun in. Its illegal! Remember? And don’t even get me started on the new premium product that the drug dealers now have to smuggle. Guns go with drugs like ice cream goes with cake. Like milk goes with cookies. The two were MADE for each other!
The other day I saw a show on the Military Channel. It was about this new generation of fighter pilots, and how “gifted†they are when they arrive for training. The reason? The video games. The kids have been flying high tech flight simulators since they were 4 years old, so naturally they are pretty darn good by the time they reach 20. It’s wonderful! The Military is all excited about it. Well guess what. How about all those kids who love to play the very graphic, realistic “Shoot em up games?†The cop killer games? Are we really stupid enough to believe that those kids will not become proficient (if not just desensitized) to killing with long-term exposure to these games? Do you only have an affect on the “Good Games?†We are blown away by the skill of our great new generation of fighter pilots, but we scratch our heads in amazement at how a kid can walk through a college campus and blow people away and never even show a SINGLE EMOTION! HELLO!!!!!
Now lets look at life 50 years ago. Johnny came home from school (where he started the day with a prayer). Mom (yeah – that’s right MOM!) was home waiting for him with a big hug. She gave him a glass of fresh milk and some freshly baked chocolate chip cookies. The two would discuss how Johnny’s day went. Johnny would do his homework and go outside to play Kick the Can with his friends. Later Johnny was called in for dinner, with his entire family – Dad would ask all about his day. Later, Johnny was on his way upstairs for his bath. The family would sit together and listen to the radio or watch TV – A decent wholesome show like Father Knows Best. Johnny would later be tucked into bed, kissed on the forehead and he would hear his parents tell him that they loved him as he drifted off to sleep.
Now compare that to today. Johnny comes home from school (no prayer started this day– you can’t talk about God in the schools anymore. We don’t need him). Mom is working because we have to have this huge house, 3 cars, the boat and all the other crap we don’t really use much. No one is home. But that’s ok, Johnny has his X Box. He can get in a few hours of “Cop Killer†before “dinner.†All in VERY realistic, high definition, bloody detail, he can sit back, relax and murder dozens of folks before Mom gets home. Dad? Dad moved out because he read an add in the thrifty Nickel about how easy and cheap a divorce was – only $150 uncontested! Who could pass up a bargain like that? Plus he and his wife worked so much to buy all that crap that they didn’t need, they never really saw each other anyway. Plus, its not like anyone actually STAYS married anymore anyway – is it? So when Mom gets home she is beat! It’s mac and cheese again – quick and easy. After dinner, Johnny has time to knock off 20 or 30 more cops before bedtime. Then its off to bed he goes. Next day? Repeat Day one.
The really interesting part of this? When Johnny starts running around with the wrong crowd, and develops a drug addiction that Mom and Dad don’t even know about we are surprised. Then later, when he gets upset at the world and walks around the school killing people we are REALLY surprised. We say stuff like “How could this have happened?†“Johnny was such a good kid.†“I gave him everything he wanted.†Did you? Does that mean a cell phone and an X box or a good meal, a hug ever day and a heartfelt “I love you with all my heart son?â€
Are we surprised by the tremendous ability of our new pilots? Should we be surprised by the efficiency of our new killers? Both highly trained by the most advanced technology. Both very good at what they do.
I was a Police Officer in this fair city for many years. I saw a number of murders, suicides, assaults, etc. The two absolute worst murders that I ever saw (besides young Jaralee Underwood) were committed by husbands against their wives, inside their homes. In one case, the man bludgeoned his wife to death with a hammer (yes, a HAMMER) out near Jennie Lee Subdivision. In the Other, (West side, off of Buckboard) a man disemboweled his beautiful bride with one fast upward stroke of a sharp kitchen knife. Stem to stern. Not very pretty at all.
People have control or they don’t. People are mentally balanced or they are not. When someone loses control to the point that they want to kill – they WILL KILL. If they have to use a hammer, a knife, a chainsaw or a shotgun – there are several “tools†that will get this job done. The trick is to not let people get to that stage in the first place. Serious Police intervention for any act of Domestic Violence was a great idea, and is working to a degree. But what if we were actually able to do what I talked about above? Start making changes in each and every home, with each and every kid by BEING THERE! BEING PARENTS AGAIN! TEACHING! PROVIDING GUIDANCE! HUGGING! CAMPING! FISHING! SPENDING OUR PRECIOUS TIME! From an uneducated GED recipient you have just heard the only plausible answer to this problem. No studies. No research. I know how you all love your studies and your research. But God gave us all some degree of common sense and a natural ability to get through our lives. We try to let that all go because we wrap ourselves up in all of our studies and research. That’s how we get led off course and start thinking about we need to outlaw guns – rather than understanding that we really should buy one. Dr Spock gave you studies and research. Every Tom Dick and Harry with an Agenda can dig up some research. Use your own head once in a while. More answers there than you might imagine!
So you want to take my gun away from me? Will that solve your problems? I raised my children in a home with guns. We hunted and shot together. I taught them how to respect a gun, and thus, respect life. I taught them how to feed our family for a full YEAR with a gun and one elk tag. To bring home meat that was pure, clean, without dies or chemicals. You pay someone to kill for you (cows) – I kill my dinner myself. Wild game. There are ways that firearms can be used properly. Good old fashioned “family†ways.
One evening my wife and I walked along a sidewalk in Los Angeles. Window-shopping for shoes (yippee). It was almost dark on Hollywood Blvd. We walk into this alcove, glass showcases on each side – a ramp leading up to the closed, locked and heavily barred door of this shoe shop. My wife was looking intently at the shoes, but I noticed right away the 3 men who had stopped on the sidewalk in the doorway – blocking our exit to the sidewalk. The guy in the middle pulled out a long bladed knife and held it up in a threatening manner. He motioned the blade toward my wife and pointed at her purse, which was hanging by a strap from her shoulder. He said nothing. My wife turned around and was shocked. I smiled at the man and his friends as I pulled from waist line a very nice satin nickel Colt Government Model .45 ACP and pointed it at the man’s head – about 10 feet away. He slowly put the knife back in his jacket, turned and walked away. A decision that allowed him to continue living. To find some other person to rob. Hopefully one who believed in gun control. They are more fun – and certainly much easier. This idiot brought a knife to a gunfight. No “victims†that night. Me or my wife. And the cops didn’t even have to leave the donut shop.
You want to stop the shootings in our schools? Not easy. People have been killing people since there were people. But I can tell you how to slow it down. But we can’t do it. Its medicine that doesn’t taste good. Its not quick and it’s not easy. We can’t tolerate the medicine that can make us well. But here it is anyway….
- [Edited by site admin, please take religious discussions to http://religiondebates.blogspot.com/]
- Drop the greed. Your house is nice enough and you don’t need the boat. Let Mom (or Dad) stay home with the kids. Hug them and be a parent. Be as greedy for more time with your children as most people are for your toys and their precious money.
- Stop the media from sensationalizing every idiot who reaches for his place in history by shooting up our kids in school (or anywhere else for that matter) I don’t give a damn what his name was or what his face looks like. This serves no legitimate purpose but to give these psycho freaks what they want, and inspire the next generation of wacko that wants to go down in history.
- Stop allowing your kids to play violent video games. Just don’t buy them. If there is no market – there is no need to make them. We must insist on more wholesome pastimes for our kids.
- Get off my back about my guns. Next time you are in the mall, and a nut bag starts shooting the place up – the life I save may be your own. Case in point – Utah a few months ago.
- Get mentally and physically prepared to defend yourself, your family and your country. Stop relying on someone else to do it for you. You can never in your life depend on ANYONE like you can depend on yourself. I might get a flat tire as I rush to answer your 911 call. Sorry, I tried. Deal with it until I get there.
- Enjoy every possible moment of this precious life that you can. It can end in a flash. Especially if you are attacked by some predator and all you have is a heart full of love and good intentions. Those people make great victims.
Do Cops want gun control? Not the ones I know. The Chiefs of Police in this country will claim they are for it, but at that level in a Department, politics come into play. You must make the Mayor happy, so you say what is politically necessary. The truth: I think everyone should have a gun! When I was an active Police Officer, I assumed everyone had one anyway. You have to. Because the guy who shoots you will have a gun! I promise! And I KNEW that the one guy who would someday try to shoot me (and he did try) would be a law-breaking thug (and he was). He didn’t care about your laws. He was a felon, in possession of a firearm — illegally. He didn’t seem to me to be too worried about either! In other words – Gun Control Laws would make me no safer. Bad guys will have guns just like bad guys have drugs. The only difference is that the good guys won’t have guns to keep the bad guys at bay. Its simple. If you were a rapist – and you had your eye on that pretty lady living over on Elm Street – what is the ONE SINGLE thing you DO NOT want to see when you sneak into her house in the middle of the night? A .38 Smith pointed at your head, that’s what.
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Comments
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0 
0 That’s a great point to let 911 know you are armed, I never realized that could be such an important communication.
What are the costs and hurdles to getting a concealed weapon permit? Is it easier if one had weapons qualifications from military service?
One point about home defense, what do you think about guns versus knives?
I remember the Citizen’s Police Academy I took a few years ago, where they demonstrated how a knife will beat actually beat a gun every time in distances of less than 21 feet, which is the maximum open distance in most homes.
Wouldn’t it be more prudent for home defense to recommend a few $6 drywall knives (with those nasty points and serrated blades) rather than a $300+ gun that poses other safety issues with kids?
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0 0 Actually what that 21 ft rule shows is that a guy with a knife will get to you before you can draw and fire. What happens next who knows? Maybe you get stabbed or cut but at that point I’d rather have a gun than a knife of my own since I can either get off a point blank shot or bludgeon the guy with the gun.
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0 0 As to the original post:
I too wish guns would all magically disappear but they won’t. And while I certainly favor background checks and registration that its because if you make all guns illegal only the good guys will obey.
I do take issue with the whole god in school concept. If you want your kids to learn about YOUR god in school then send them to private school. He’s not my god and he’s not a lot of other peoples either.
And I always have severe eye rolling spasms anytime anyone starts mentioning how good things used to be. You know back in the 50’s when a wife either learned to take a punch or shut her mouth and the cops if they came would tell the wife to obey her husband instead of arresting him. When you taught your kids it was okay to call blacks the n word and to avoid them at all costs. Where it was considered okay to beat the living crap out of a black boy who so much as glanced at your daughter. Where seperate but equal was accepted (thank you activist judges for forcing the United States to stop this racist practice).
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0 0 Thanks Post number 4. God in the Schools… Thats what I meant when I said that we cannot take the medicine that can cure us. Many people take issue with God in the schools. The need to seperate Church from State. When the first shots rang out, I wonder how many people in Virginia dropped to their knees and started praying to a God who, 10 minutes earlier was not welcome in that school? I bet there were many. I never said it was easy. I never even said it was possible. But that is what must happen if we want to impact the problem. He created the world, and up until we started kicking him around in this country, he blessed us as the greatest Nation in the world, and gave our schools more protection than we seem to have today — since we booted him out.
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0 0 I’m cool with “God” in school - so long as EVERY faith’s “gods and goddesses” are represented.
Like the other person said, somebody else’s (for example Christian) god isn’t mine - and I imagine that most reading this aren’t inclined be interested in the god/goddesses I prefer.
So, let’s teach SPIRITUALITY in school. You don’t need a particular religion to do that - even atheists probably wouldn’t get offended. My best friend is atheist and she really loves our spiritual talks.
The good thing about spirituality is - it’s USEFUL. Our society is as such these days that - as was originally mentioned - everything is in a hurry. MINDFULNESS creates space - and it is in between one space to another that compassion, caring, and appreciation can be reborn.
Teach these concepts to kids in early schooling - so that maybe we can regain a frame of loving, acceptance, care, and VALUE of one another.
As for the guns - I have guns (yes, me, a tree-hugging, left-leaning, environmentalist). I hunt - with rifles. We used to do archery but both of us have crappy shoulders anymore.
I have this to say in regards to guns - if a person likes guns too much or fears guns too much - in either case, that person probably shouldn’t have a gun.
Point two. Guns are built to kill things. PERIOD. I honestly believe that “joe homeowner” is kidding him/herself if s/he buys a gun to “protect” the family from intruders. Most people who do that don’t target shoot, don’t take their guns out regularly, don’t keep in practice. They buy a gun “to protect the family” then go about their business.
If anybody reading this is one of those people - do yourself a favor and sell your gun or give it to local law enforcement. You have a gun for all the wrong reasons.
If you have a gun - you MUST be willing and able to kill something with it. If you;re not, do yourself a favor and stop deluding yourself that your family is “safer” because you have a gun. It’s not safer - in fact - it might be LESS safe by being less likely to lock windows, doors, etc., because “we have a gun”. Bull-poo. If you’re not practiced and able to comprehend the entire reason for having a gun (to kill - NOT to “protect your family”) get rid of the gun.
Some of the wisest people I know refuse to keep a gun because they know deep in themselves that they don’t “want” to use one. If you have this feeling - you are injuring part of your soul’s/conscience’s purpose by having a gun - a tool you don’t like, lurking in your home, filling in the “spaces” between the spaces.
Having said that, I like my gun. We go out shooting every month, we go out hunting every October. Sometimes when the stars and planets align just right - we bring home plenty of meat for winter. I do this because I understand that the gun is meant to kill things.
I also agree that people would do well to have a parent around more often - mom or dad - one of them. Sadly, in our society we’ve put so much emphasis on “stuff” that now we feel compelled to keep two incomes so we can get more “stuff”. I don’t have kids, and both my partner and I work, but we both work jobs we like that afford us LESS money but MORE freedom. I do not live in a huge home or drive a Hummer - I have a TINY home, a used car, and I’m happy as a pig in plop over these two facts. I’m also happy that I have TIME to spend with people I care about. So we don’t get to go to the Bahamas, so we don’t get to have a built in spa in our home. Oh freaking well. We have plenty - more than many, less than some, probably “little” by USA standards. I don’t care. I’m not in living life to get “stuff”, I’m living life to explore the experience of it.
Guns is a tough subject. I say - do the best you can with what you have, know your limits, and live life accordingly. You will NOT be able to control the bulk of the people with guns whether you have one or not. There are exceptions to this - so use those exceptions wisely.
So sayeth me, for what it’s worth to anybody else.
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0 0 This attitude towards God seems more emblazened(accepted negativity)than even ten-fifteen years ago this may be media,or worse yet breakdown of society if no God then no consequences for actions or moral degradation.
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0 0 Post #7. Great Point! And very well said. And in my opinion, the biggest overall problem that has lead to the horrible shootings in recent years. And I truely believe that we have not even begun to see trouble. Give it another 20 years.
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0 0 We’re not really supposed to talk about religion on this site (as per Joe’s request) but maybe “God” in general is okay.
Here’s the thing about “God” - people have done a lot of stupid things in “his” name, so it’s REALLY hard for some of us to wrap our heads around the idea that we need MORE moral hand-holding.
I say - keep God out of schools and teach ideals like compassion, respect, and dignity. These virtues can be EASILY applied to every faith out there.
A lack of “God” isn’t our problem here. As a point of evidence, our current leader (GWB) is quite “God-fearing”, but that doesn’t stop him from declaring “God is on our side” whilst we wage war against others who are not like us.
Fighting hatred by applying hatred to the situation - what would “God” think of that?
I get tired of people saying we need more “God”. I disagree. I think we need more COMPASSION.
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0 0 Ehhhh, I didn’t recognize the religion aspect that would raise it’s head again!
http://religiondebates.blogspot.com
I ask anyone with comments having anything to do with God or religion to please post those comments at that new website. I even started a new article discussion thread just for this specific idea of God/Religion back in public schools.
http://religiondebates.blogspot.com
I don’t want to see this article’s many important thought-provoking issues to get dominated by one.
I believe people kill people, but guns do make it easiest.
I think we need to just keep guns out of the crazy people’s grasp. But to do that involves making gun ownership more of a privilege than a right (like a driver’s license).
Heck this is practically the situation right now anyways.
Do we really need to increase our self-pride in America, or do we need to start doing more things that will naturally instill pride?
I do not agree that violent video games produce violent people. That’s the same thing as saying shooting guns often and collecting guns makes someone more likely to use it on people.
I’ll admit it’s unfortunate that if you are a psycho, yeah those games would get you off as you imagine and plan your rampage. However violent movies, literature, and even comic books will feed the same psychotic behaviors. If you try to eliminate one, let’s get rid of them all and whitewash sanitize our whole world.
No, there’s got to be other solutions.
I agree the media was totally wrong to upload and broadcast the Virginia Tech shooter’s pictures, videos, and written manifesto. Shame on the media. Which local affiliates carried any pictures and/or videos?
See. There are so many great discussion topics that would have gotten overrun by that other dead end topic.
I still would rather knife fight that grapple in the dark with two guns with my kids a mere hollow wall away.
What do you think?
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0 0 Excellent article.
The right to have guns and bear arms is a fascinating concept in this country. The 2nd amendment was not only put there to give us the right to protect ourselves and out property from individual criminals, but also to protect ourselves from an errant government. That is a fascinating concept to ponder when you hear about all these new gun control laws being passed in our country. It is also interesting to think about the demonization of the Militia.
I grew up around here and have always been around guns. They have never intimidated me and they are just part of our heritage and culture. There is a joke around my circle of friends right now that you know you are in Idaho when even the Democrats have guns.
As far as using a gun for protection, they really do work. The funny thing is that actually firing the gun in a defensive situation is very rare. Most of the time just brandishing it is enough to put you in control of the situation.
Speaking of gun defense http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55309
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0 0 It’s looking more and more like the Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-hui was not a violent video game player.
In fact, the PR reported today on several violently-themed … books that Cho had read!
Books like Men, Women, and Chainsaws and Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and Macabre.
Before any violent video games are banned, we will first have to remove Stephen King books and other such novels. Really, we need to stop pointing to the easiest scapegoat and be honest with ourselves about the real problems.
I think we need to really just ramp up mental health care in America. Bring back institutions, and apply what we did not like about institutions in the 60’s.
Focusing money and energy on mental health care will stop more of these attacks than banning creative endeavors will.
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0 0 [3 paragraph comment about religion deleted by site admin, it was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, but religious discussion has essentially been banned at IFz. We have tried it and there is never healthy resolution.
Please go to http://religiondebates.blogspot.com for religious discussions.]
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0 0 Joe, I wasn’t trying to imply that violent video games were behind the Virginia Tech incident. Also I never even hinted that we should “ban” creative endeavors. In regards to the violent video games — I was speaking in general terms about the number of children who spend their time these days being “babysat” by an electronic box. Not Cho. American kids in general. No one can dispute this unless someone wants to come out and say “I think parnets in the US spend too much time with their kids, and the kids in this country are geetting too much physical activity and not enough electronic game playing time.” I did however mention that too much of these very graphic violent games might have a ill affect on children, just as the flight simulator games have seemed to have a positive affect. I do not believe in banning any of it. I believe that parents need to be actively involved and ensure that what feeds their childs mind is helthy — just as they should do with what feeds the child body. If parents did keep their children away from the violent games, and the demand went down, then certainly so would the supply. I do think that to impact the problem as a whole, parents need to spend more time with their kids, teaching and providing guidance. I also believe that there are better ways for a kid to spend the day. Sitting in his living room “killing people” in what has today become extremely realistc detail can’t be good. I would say the same thing about a child who spent great amounts of time reading certain graphic, “bloody” books — or eating large numbers Hostess Twinkies for that matter. Even then, when we apply everything possible to stop tragedies like Virginia, there will still be “evil people” regardless of what we do. Some people will always feel the need to kill other people. Ted Bundy was a great example and only one of many. He didn’t really use guns at all, particularly in the begining, but he killed many woman,simply because he enjoyed it. What makes a person turn out like that? The only answer I can find is that there is an evil force in this this world, and for some reason somne people become consumed with that evil. He and others will blame it on his Mother, or a breakup with his girlfriend, or the fact that his Father left him. But we have case after case where people went through so much more tragedy than Ted, and turned out to be wonderful productive people. The suggestions that I made are what I believe to be the entire package — the best all around way to help ensure a higher percentage of healthy, active and well adjusted children, who understand that life is presious, while at the same time building ourselves up to the point where we are “tough” again and able to protect ourselves whithout relying so much on someone else to do it for us. Not everyone can do this. Some just will not be comfortable owning a gun. If that is the case, then they shouldn’t. They can get a box knife and put 911 on their speed dial. But if Ted Bundy’s 3rd victim had been properly trained and was armed, would there have been victims number 4 through ? God only knows? What if HALF of these girls had been trained and armed and were physically and mentally ready to protect themselves? We need more stories like the one at the link above in post #11 and less of people being shot curled up in a ball begging for their lives.
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0 0 Strength is an ATTITUDE. And a basic law of nature — The predator will search out the weak. The ones who represnt the “path of least resistance.” The ones who cannot defend themselves. Climb through my bedroom window tonight with a knife between your teeth and see what happens.
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0 0 Feelin Lucky, I find it mildly intriguing that you keep inviting criminals to ‘climb into your window.” I assume it is so you can ‘prove’ that you are willing to shoot an intruder. Have you ever considered locking your windows, or putting an alarm system on your home?
Let’s say you have a gun in your home for self defense. Where do you store it? In a gun safe? Under your pillow or in your nightstand? What if you have children? How can it be easily accessible for protection and still be safe for your children? Last year in I.F. an 19mo old child was accidentally shot by their 4yo sibling, would you like that to happen in your home? To your child? Yes, you can teach children about guns (I have taught mine) but is that enough?
From a Washington Post Article from 2006:
“Gun-owning parents who think their children don’t know where firearms are kept or haven’t handled the weapons without permission may be in for a disturbing surprise.
A new study involving 201 parents and an equal number of their children has found that 39 percent of kids knew the location of their parents’ firearms, while 22 percent said they had handled the weapons, despite their parents’ assertions to the contrary. Parents who had talked to their children about gun safety were just as likely to be misinformed about their children’s actions as those who said they never had discussed the matter.” (Full text available HERE
Homes with guns also have higher suicide rates, higher gun accident rates, and higher homicide rates.
The idea of protecting yourself with a gun is good, in theory. But, frankly, I doubt that most people could really handle it. If it came down to it, could you really pull the trigger and take someone’s life? Have you had to before, have you been trained to do so? Can you keep a criminal away from your gun if you miss the first shot? What if you fire at miss an unarmed intruder, miss, and he wrestles your firearm away you, who just gained a big advantage?
Most police officers that are shot are injured with their own weapons, how much would shootings of property owners increase if these homeowners were trying to protect themself with a gun from hardened criminals?
Guns are serious business. Better be seriously prepared for the consequences if you own them, especially if you have kids.
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0 0 Rich, Interesting questions. I will try to address a couple as best I can… You said
“I find it mildly intriguing that you keep inviting criminals to ‘climb into your window.†I assume it is so you can ‘prove’ that you are willing to shoot an intruder.” Well Rich, A very poor assumption on your part. You see, I am simply trying to convey an ATTITUDE that more Americans need to have when it comes to home and self defense. An ATTITUDE that will help us all take care of ourselves rather than just sitting around waiting for our Government to take care of us. Its an ATTITUDE of survival. An ATTITUDE that should carry with it a well balanced and generous portion of common sense. Do I lock windows and doors? Yes, When it is prudent. Do I take measures to avoid any confrontation when possible? Absolutely. Do I want to prove to Rich that I can kill if I must? Frankly I don’t care what Rich thinks. Am I prepared if someone does try to harm my family. Most certainly. Next, Anyone who would say “I assume it is so you can ‘prove’ that you are willing to shoot an intruder” obviously does not know me and has actually offended me more than I am sure he meant to. My post has much to say about what a great responsibility owning a gun is. It talks much about the training one should have. It mentions several times the need to be mentally prepared to use the gun to defend a life. All very well balanced comments from a well adjusted US Vertran and Police Officer.
You also said “I doubt that most people could really handle it.” Thanks Rich. You have made the overall point of my post better than I actually did. Thank you. That, my friend is the problem! We have lost the ability to take care of ourselves. Thats kind of what I was trying to say. Most people can’t do it. Just like most people can’t jog 3 miles or run up 7 flights of stairs. Its true… Americans are getting fat and lazy. That doesn’t mean that we should not encourage a change of ATTITUDE when it come to physical activity. Perhaps more people SHOULD be able to jog 3 miles! Next you asked “could you really pull the trigger and take someone’s life?” This one was the most interesting of all. My mind races with responses to this one. Let me just say this: Yes. If I had no other choice, and it had to be done in defense of me, my family or my friend Rich Ronin, yes I would. Would I want to? no. Would I enjoy it? Certainly not. Would I rather die myself — or see my new friend Rich Ronin die because I couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger? No. Lastly, What did I do to secure my firearms when my children were young? Well, I kept the hnting rifles and most all handguns locked in a gun safe. I kept one handgun (my work gun) in the top of my closet. It was in a security holsetr that involved some arm strenghth and a certain “twist” to get the gun out of the holster. I also removed the bullet from the chamber, but kept the magazine loaded. When the kids were very young, they were not strong enough to pull the slide back — even with two hands. As they got older, (high school) they had been out to the shooting range and had learned how to shoot and handle a firearm well. The gun was still always up in the closet, but they had been taught not to touch it. By the time they were in high school and I trusted then with the car, I figured I could trust them with a gun in my bedroom closet. Just as my Father did with me, and his Father did with him. In regards to your detail on studies and statistics; I predicted that one too. I am not talking about everyone in the US when I prepare to keep my home safe. You worry about everyone — and statistics and I will worry about me and mine. I am talking about me and my family. What are the statistics in regards to children killed every year in car accidents? Well what do in an effort to make those very high numbers drop? We make safer cars, Require training. enforce the laws that apply. No where in my comments have I recommended anything less for firearms.
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0 0 Thank you for correcting my assumptions, I apologize if I offended you.
As far as me worrying about everyone, it’s called empathy, what exactly is wrong with that? I feel like we have a responsibility as citizens (or as spiritual/religous people) to be concerned with the welfare of our fellow man.
Guns have their place, even in my home. But guns do nothing to address the deeper societal problems that lead to gun violence.
Besides, crime rates in I.F. are very low. Lots of people (even Democrats, like myself and Gypsy) in Idaho own guns. Of all the ppl I personally know that own guns, NONE of them own only own gun… When is it enough?
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0 0 I understand and appreciate the attitude adjusting things brought up.
Unfortunately, we cannot ignore the reality of those statistics indicating many home gun owners actually cause themselves more harm than safety.
How to improve that?
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0 0 Gun control is a good idea but also remember a criminaly insain person does not care about the law. I could shoot a person that came into my home armed or unarmed.
I totaly agree we need to stop depending on the police to solve all of our problems.
Some people need to stop crying about being a victim all the time and just grow up and take responsibility for your family.
Gun Banning will only give thugs and bad guys the guns. FYI I have a concealed weapons permit and a nice 45 semi automatic hand gun I carry with me every where.
Gun saftey around children. That a good point. Gun manufacterers are addressing this issue. My gun has finger print ID chip. I am the only person who can fire my gun.
If someone came in my window I wont ask him to leave my 45 will make him leave his life period. No wasted money on jail for this person. No repeated offenses from this person. just a pine box and a hole to put them in. (EVIL SMILE)
I also have a model 500 Moddenburg 12 guage shot gun law enforcment edition short barrel with a pistol grip and 25 round riot drum stuffed full of double ot buck shot. I think just loading a round in the chamber would scare anyone encluding a law officer.
I do not care if that person has a badge or a library card. They come in my home unanounced. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!! will be the last sound that person hears. I am glad my record shows I am a gun owner that has serious firearms training. The police come to my house they call me or knock lol.
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0 0 Rich, regarding post #18… right on! More points that I was trying to make — hit right on the head! 1st. you said “I feel like we have a responsibility as citizens (or as spiritual/religous people) to be concerned with the welfare of our fellow man.” Me too! Thats why I chose the work that I did — and thats why I have said we should all be prepared to defend ourselves and others (The mall shooters?) 2nd. You said: ” Guns have their place, even in my home. But guns do nothing to address the deeper societal problems that lead to gun violence.” Beutiful! Chocolate Chip Cookies (AKA a parent that stays home to nurture the child) and other suggestions were made to do just that! 3rd: “Besides, crime rates in I.F. are very low.” Funny thing. Much of this site talks about the growth rate of IF — the building boom, the increased traffic, etc. Do you see where I am going with that? What makes you think the crime rate will stay low? And once again — this attitude that I speak of may not be required to help YOU. But exactly what skills will be needed for your grandchildren to survive? Where will they live? What will their crime rate be? What ATTITUDE do you want to send down the line to them when it comes to self defense and being prepared? Some in the area teach their children to gather and store massive quantities of food for an emergency — to be prepared. Yet not so much attention is paid to being prepared for that emergency in other ways. Just food for thought. I don’t expect everyone to agree. But think about this… we live in a violent world. Its hard to turn out children who are well prepared — mentally tough, and ready to defend themselves and our country, yet have compassion and are capable of loving and caring. It takes serious effort. Tough, independant kids who have compassion yet can stand up and take care of themselves. And why is that so important? We teach our children to love and be kind and not do ANYTHING — EVER — to hurt another humane being.” No toy guns, no hitting! Now you be nice — all ok. But then when the kid turns 18, Uncle SAM gives him a little piece of paper and tells him to get on a plane. He sends the Kid to the other side of the Ocean, and gives the kid a gun. He tells the kid — “Go out and kill all of the people who don’t look like you. Now I am not saying that this is right. I am not saying that any given war is where we should be. I am saying that times have come in history when our young men were called upon to fight (and die) for this country. Thats whay stopped Hitler. It was a generation of heros. A generation who had a strong ATTITUDE about how to protect themselves and this great Country. We turn our children loose when they become adults. We turn them out into a literal jungle. There are SO MANY things that we must teach them. Which, my friends, is what I have been trying to say all along.
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0 0 Joe, one more thing to your point — Guns are in our society. They are here to stay and CANNOT under any circumstances be gotten totally rid of by outlawing them. If we do that, they go blackmarket. High margins of profit then exist, as criminals sell to other criminals. Wal-Mart became the largest retailer in the world with profit margins of 10 to 15% The profit margin on one pound of cocaine is 1700%! Some crooked “investors” get very excited over profits like that. You cannot effetively stop a product of any kind when there is a demand. So once we establish that guns can not be eraticated from the world — we then must understand that it is NEVER a safe world if only the criminals have guns. Once we realize and admit that, its not a far stretch to believe that perhaps more individual Americans should drop the “please don’t hurt me” mentality, stand up do something to protect themselves. It must be done in a responsible manner — and if done corrctly, this will help many coming generations to deal with the things that they will likley need to deal with. How to inprove that you ask? I thought I covered that too.
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0 0 Oops! If I’ve conveyed I want any gun control, please accept my sincere support of gun rights.
The only gun controls I support are ridiculous firepower (machine guns and extremely large caliber should not be in consumer markets) and restricting guns from criminally violent or insane people.
No, I totally support the right to bear arms.
I am just concerned about the overwhelming statistics showing so many gun owners actually bring harm to themselves.
With the rights come the responsibilities.
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0 0 Amen to that Joe.
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0 0 I AM a dem who owns guns!
So yes it’s true - even democats in Idaho own guns! It’s the reverse of where I come from (California) where they say “Even the Republicans are liberal-inclined”. Right on Arnold! He’s a Republican I respect, his politics really aren’t as narcissistic as many Republicans are.
As for violent books and video games - although I do think such things create desensitation in kids, I don’t think that’s so much where the violent outbursts and deadly force comes from.
I go to my original assertion and declare again that it’s a general LACK OF COMPASSION that is largely @ fault here - and by fault I mean a literal “fault” of sorts. A “break” in how we (as a society) have learned to behave and interact with others.
There was an interview on the Ed Schultz Radio Show last week - a young woman who had been in the Columbine shootings, she was 16 @ the time, is now 24, and she said it succinctly - she said EXACTLY what I believe.
She said - “People have forgotten how to communicate with one another”.
THIS - I believe - is @ the heart of the matter. We have, in the pat several generations, raised kids to be increasingly self-centered (narcissistic, verging on sociopathic). As these kids develop into an adult mindset their thinking lacks reasonable compassion - and in its place resides unhealthy amounts of self-centeredness.
Example - any of us who watched tv as kids were implored to NEED X cereal and Y toy and Z clothing label. As we got older X and Y and Z became more adult things - like cars, homes with certain ameneties, and vacations to far away locations.
My point is this, and yeah I think I’m right. Guns are not the problem, lack of Somebody’s morality is not the problem, video games are not the problem. These are all symptoms of the problem. The PROBLEM is - we have lost the desire to teach compassion - and we are now a society of compassion-dysfunctional people (just look @ how we treat the world around us if you want evidence of the lack of compassion).
If we want young people to stop and think long and hard before they attack with a violent weapon - then let’s start raising our kids to THINK long and hard before they attack @ ALL. Let’s teach our kids to understand another’s point of view, to understand the guy next door’s point of view, the POV of the old woman in the nursing home, the young child in day care, the stranger who is standing next to us in line @ the store.
Let’s go further than that - why not? Let’s DARE to care. Let’s take into account the POV of the rain forest and all the creatures who live there. Let’s take into account the families in Middle Eastern countries who can’t go a more than a few days without violence touching them in some way.
Let’s take into account the great barrier reef that is slowly being choked to death by toxic overload. Let’s - I DARE to say it - take into account the gray wolf, who is simply doing what a wolf DOES (eating) and it just so happens we and they have crossed each other’s paths in an iritating way.
Rather than continuing to create more “us against them” thinking (and YES that does include “our religion against theirs” - but it also includes thousands of other divisive thoughts and actions) why don’t we create inclusion, care, compassion?
This might not “end” violent attacks, but it could. It will absolutely discourage a lot of it because the more a person is able to empathise / feel compassion - the less able that person is to harm with careless abandon.
I think I’m right on this. More control isn’t the answer. More compassion is. It’s just too damned bad our society has no idea how to understand what that means.
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0 0 I have a question that sort of merges FeelinLucky’s and Gypsy’s philosophies.
I appreciate we should protect our homes and be willing to do what is necessary to protect them.
However, think of the energy some people put into arming themselves to the teeth, thinking over scenarios whereby they shoot anyone crawling through their window. How much time and energy is put into thinking about that admittedly unlikely scenario?
Why not take some of that angry “me against this forsaken world” energy, and put it into helping the world be safer?
Why not volunteer with the citizen’s academy to patrol neighborhoods?
Why not host a block party where you meet your neighbors, learn their names, talk about safety and looking out for each other?
Why not volunteer to in schools to help at-risk kids with their homework, and talk about life’s choices?
Why not volunteer to be a Big Brother or Big Sister to at-risk kids and talk about life’s choices?
Why not help the poor and elderly in your neighborhood install motion-sensor lights on their homes?
There are so many things that one could do that actually would contribute to a safer world. I’m concerned that people with the ‘fortress’ mentality are focused too much on the carnage they will unleash on a albeit unlikely burglary scenario, and are wasting their potential to actually influence the world in ways to decrease crime.
The defense strategies are important, but recognize that they are entirely reactive.
What have you proactively done to make your area safer, not just your own home?
What could you proactively do?
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0 0 Joe -
GREAT reply!
I can speak personally for the good Big Sisters does - I was a Big Sister when I lived in Los Angeles County and would STILL be a Big Sister if the county I live in now provided funds for it - but apparently there is too little need here. (Which is a good thing.)
The thing about being a Big Sis / Bro is that you get the chance to take a kid’s perceptions and help that kid come to his / her own conclusions - and believe it or not - KIDS are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS wiser in a fundamental way than adults are.
Why? Maybe because they aren’t as corrupted yet. I don’t know.
Neighborhood Block Parties and Watch is a great plan too. When I lived in Los Angeles (in town - I now live in the country) we did a block party every year - and yes we had Neighborhood Watch meetings whereby we would allocate ideas - such as - when Mr. and Mrs. Jones are out of town for a visit, they tell us about it. When John and Jane Doe move into the neighborhood they are immediately embraced and encouraged to join.
Stuff like that.
I think you are COMPLETELY right about sharing time and space with others rather than locking ourselves AWAY from others. You have made my point for me in a way I just couldn’t verbalize.
Join with one another, understand one another, become a community.
THIS - I think - is one of the basic ways to keep harm from entering our lives by way of violence.
IExample - let’s just say we in the USA could be friends with those in Iraq. Let’s say our kids hung out together, our families sat next to each other in restaurants. If we and they were kind and compassionate toward each other rather than blaming and shaming of each other - how far do you REALLY think this war would have gotten?
Joe’s right. Find a group to join. I have groups I am currently part of - I volunteer to do litter clean-up, I am part of another environmental group, I am a member of a few other groups that meet regularly (most are environmental). It helps to generate community - this way one does not feel so ALONE. (A big problem with Cho was he felt alone and misunderstood.)
Become part of each other’s lives - enjoy rather than repel yourself from differences.
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0 0 I really appreciate both above points of view…Gypsy’s and Joes. In response to Joes — I agree except for two small things, one being the phrase “arming themselves to the teeth.” and the other — “some of that angry “me against this forsaken worldâ€
First, no where did I ever saw anything about arming one-self to the teeth. I believe that that phrase generally implies something overboard, and conjures up mental images of some radical in a barricaded home somewhere with stockpiles of guns and ammunition. I have only talked about arms and training needed to protect ones own self and family. If someone were “armed to the teeth” I would need to know their reasons for stockpiling such armament before I could make a comment. I own a rifle for hunting elk, a shotgun for pheasants, a muzzleloader for winter elk seasons, a revolver for self protection, and my wife has a small 9mm handgun that she puts in the car if she travels alone. Each firearm has a specific purpose. I don’t feel “armed to the teeth.” Next, in regards to the “anger” and the “me against this forsaken world.” If you knew me personally you would know that this does not describe me. I know that you may not have been talking about me specifically — and I appreciate that. I hope that my recommendations in any of my posts did not convey anger. There is no place in firearms ownership for anger. Just as there is no place for anger in operating a motor vehicle. It may be an “us against them” mentality I guess. Lets take the off duty cop in Utah as an example. When the killer started shooting people, the off duty cop responded by pulling out a weapon. He shot the killer, and saved lives. If his attitude at that moment was us (decent citizens) against them (killers who randomly shoot mall goers) then so be it. It’s us against them. I really agree with all of your other suggestions for doing things to help, and becoming involved. Personally I feel as though I have done much to help make the world a safer place to be. I shouldn’t go into that for fear of exposing exactly who I am. But, I have paid a very high price — personally — trying to keep Idaho Falls safe. I have nearly given my life on at least two occasions. As a matter of fact — go down to Max’s Gun Shop and look at the bars on the window. Notice the bullet hole blown in the bars on the left side (looking in from the sidewalk) That was a lever action rifle that was aimed at my head. It was one of over 100 rounds that were shot at me that night. Several went into my car while I was in it. I lost sleep for weeks after that, and still to this day have a panic attack if I hear a loud “boom” in a downtown area near buildings. My wife no longer slept well when I worked nights. My kids grew up in school not as individual people with a given last name. Their names were “that’s the cop’s kids.” Our house was never known as the “Smiths” house. It was always the cop’s house. But in the middle of the night, when you had a problem, you could grab your box knife and dial 911. And I would get there as fast as I could. To possibly do what no one should want to do. To do whatever I had to make you safe. I could tell a few more stories to answer your question even better, but really, who cares. Someone else owned the store back then, but I nearly died trying to protect it. And Rich – did I shoot the guy? No. Never had a clear shot. Could I have shot him. If the conditions were right, and at that moment I had to – yes, I certainly could have. Am I glad that I didn’t, and after 2 ½ hrs. he gave up? Very. What have you done to help Idaho Falls safe? Tell Old Max I said hello
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0 0 I appreciate your experiences, they are very profound.
I do not think I have done enough to make my community secure. I’ve served in the guard in the past, I’ve helped friends and family secure their computers against attacks, I’ve started this website to facilitate communications outside of normal channels, but I honestly do not think I have done enough.
I wish there was more I did, I’ll try to think of other things. I’m not being sarcastic, I really do wish I did more.
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0 0 Joe, you have done a service to the community by working so hard to provide this forum. A forum in which we can share ideas and experiences. Its a lot of work, I am sure. I know that hundreds of people appreciate it. More every day. I’ll shut up now… Thanks again
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0 0 One wonders what the results might have been at V-Tech had a few of the faculty been armed. Allowing qualified teachers at our universities and public schools to carry fire-arms might not be such a bad idea. It took law enforcement a very long time to summon the courage to enter the building at Columbine. The school staff could certainly have responded much more quickly had they been armed.
[paragraph about religious stuff edited by site admin, please take religious discussions over to that new site]
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0 0 Nevermind.
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0 0 Maybe this is a thing we can do here, now, on this forum.
Each of us can look @ our particular situations, lifestyles, etc., and determine one thing we can do - small or large it doesn’t mater which - to improve safety and / or community compassion.
If you already do something - wonderful! - but let’s all do a little bit more. I firmly believe that we can’t stop hatred and violence by creating more of it. I think we stop hatred and violence by affirming care and compassion.
I will start by saying that from this day forward I will no longer flip the bird or give other gestures / looks of frustration to people who seriously annoy the you-know-what out of me when I’m driving. That is easily my biggest “uncompassionate” behavior.
If we start by doing something small and simple and personal and even challenging (trust me - not reacting to annoying drivers is a HUGE challenge for some of us) we may find that larger acts of compassion come easier.
Who’s willing to give this a try?
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0 0 My buddy likes to blow kisses at people who get mad at him in traffic.
I will try that, instead of getting mad myself. It is only temporary, after all.
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Oh, I forgot to add the disclaimer: Owning a firearm is a serious responsibility (kind of like owning a car or a sharp kitchen knife). With a firearm you must be well trained and know how to handle it safely. You must also be mentally prepared to use it if you need to. In an emergency, only use the firearm as a last resort to protect your life or the life of another. Move yourself and your family into as safe a position as possible and call 911. Tell the dispatcher that you are armed, so that he/she can pass this information on to responding Officers.