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	<title>Comments on: Charles Manson&#8217;s Helter Skelter Revisited</title>
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	<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/</link>
	<description>(The site formerly known as IdahoFallz.com)</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ponderer</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23891</link>
		<dc:creator>Ponderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23891</guid>
		<description>Thanks Reader.  By the way, to all , June 5 was the anniversary of Cindy's murder.  We still remember, miss and love her.  I hope everyone has a kind word, thought or prayer for you.  Still waiting for closure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Reader.  By the way, to all , June 5 was the anniversary of Cindy&#8217;s murder.  We still remember, miss and love her.  I hope everyone has a kind word, thought or prayer for you.  Still waiting for closure.</p>
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		<title>By: Ponderer</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23890</link>
		<dc:creator>Ponderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23890</guid>
		<description>Thanks Reader.  By the way, to all , June 5 was the anniversary of Cindy's disappearance.  We still remember, miss and love her.  Still waiting for closure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Reader.  By the way, to all , June 5 was the anniversary of Cindy&#8217;s disappearance.  We still remember, miss and love her.  Still waiting for closure.</p>
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		<title>By: Crystal</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23314</link>
		<dc:creator>Crystal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 06:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23314</guid>
		<description>What are the Pocatello Killings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are the Pocatello Killings?</p>
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		<title>By: reader</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23302</link>
		<dc:creator>reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23302</guid>
		<description>And what exactly does post #13 have to to with the topic of this thread?????
You repeated what Manson might say because....... ? I'm lost now.....


All's quiet on the Pocatello killings lately.  The retired detective I talked to sure had a good theory, and evidence from the night he was working when it happened. I personally think they know who did it but haven't been able to prove it.  I'd love to say more but like everyone else, I sit back and read the paper for the latest news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what exactly does post #13 have to to with the topic of this thread?????<br />
You repeated what Manson might say because&#8230;&#8230;. ? I&#8217;m lost now&#8230;..</p>
<p>All&#8217;s quiet on the Pocatello killings lately.  The retired detective I talked to sure had a good theory, and evidence from the night he was working when it happened. I personally think they know who did it but haven&#8217;t been able to prove it.  I&#8217;d love to say more but like everyone else, I sit back and read the paper for the latest news.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23301</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23301</guid>
		<description>Charles Manson has and may tell you, "RIGHT CLOSE UP to YOUR face! You can F-OFF, U Motha F-ER!!! 'Cause I AM EVIL, as HELL can be, and I LOVE Satan!" I've heard this from my own two ears! It is not to hard to belieive, that there are still Satanists who act like this, these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles Manson has and may tell you, &#8220;RIGHT CLOSE UP to YOUR face! You can F-OFF, U Motha F-ER!!! &#8216;Cause I AM EVIL, as HELL can be, and I LOVE Satan!&#8221; I&#8217;ve heard this from my own two ears! It is not to hard to belieive, that there are still Satanists who act like this, these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Ponderer</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23289</link>
		<dc:creator>Ponderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-23289</guid>
		<description>I have been waiting for 25 years for the resolution of the Cindy Bringhurst case.  I wonder why she and two of the others were never considered as potential 'Green River' victims . . . timeframe, race &#38; relative location fit . . .
I do know that they've re-opened the investigation with a $ 10 k private sector grant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been waiting for 25 years for the resolution of the Cindy Bringhurst case.  I wonder why she and two of the others were never considered as potential &#8216;Green River&#8217; victims . . . timeframe, race &amp; relative location fit . . .<br />
I do know that they&#8217;ve re-opened the investigation with a $ 10 k private sector grant.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20429</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20429</guid>
		<description>No, the judge refused to allow authorities to hold him. Joran (the suspect) said he was just telling the friend what he wanted to hear and was lying. Joran's lawyer also said he was under the influence of marijuana at the time as well and his statements could not be trusted. So, it was a wash for the prosecution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, the judge refused to allow authorities to hold him. Joran (the suspect) said he was just telling the friend what he wanted to hear and was lying. Joran&#8217;s lawyer also said he was under the influence of marijuana at the time as well and his statements could not be trusted. So, it was a wash for the prosecution.</p>
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		<title>By: CR67</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20427</link>
		<dc:creator>CR67</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20427</guid>
		<description>Whatever happend in that Natilie Holloway case?  Last I heard they had that guy on tape confessing the whole thing to some PI who befriended him.  Has the case gone back to court yet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever happend in that Natilie Holloway case?  Last I heard they had that guy on tape confessing the whole thing to some PI who befriended him.  Has the case gone back to court yet?</p>
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		<title>By: Nemesis</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20375</link>
		<dc:creator>Nemesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20375</guid>
		<description>I'm pretty convinced that every dead body deserves to be found, and that every family deserves to know what happened, if they care (and many of them do).  

Our taxes are paid with this in mind, that we all deserve the time of the forensics lab, even those of us who might be unknowns.  To assume that because the deceased are transients or homeless, they are therefore not important, diminishes us all.  

Solvable cases are more sexy and get you votes, I guess.  Importance of the victim, or publicity value, does not solve crimes.  JonBenet Ramsay and Natalee Holloway are real reminders.  
That being said, I understand there would be priorities, that current solvable cases would take precedence over 'cold' cases.  And, the poor labs that are so short staffed and overworked, that in itself seems to be a crime to me.

What about thinking outside the box on this one?  You find old bodies that aren't on anyone's immediate list, why couldn't a lot of forensic evidence be turned over to schools that are training new staff in this area to use for on-the-job learning?  Of course they'd need to retain some of the dna/proof for legal purposes, assuming the students managed to come up with leads.  Or at least have protocols that allow the leads they come up with to be legally valid.

I know they have the decomposition cadaver fields for forensics training, but seems they could use the experience on real situations, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty convinced that every dead body deserves to be found, and that every family deserves to know what happened, if they care (and many of them do).  </p>
<p>Our taxes are paid with this in mind, that we all deserve the time of the forensics lab, even those of us who might be unknowns.  To assume that because the deceased are transients or homeless, they are therefore not important, diminishes us all.  </p>
<p>Solvable cases are more sexy and get you votes, I guess.  Importance of the victim, or publicity value, does not solve crimes.  JonBenet Ramsay and Natalee Holloway are real reminders.<br />
That being said, I understand there would be priorities, that current solvable cases would take precedence over &#8216;cold&#8217; cases.  And, the poor labs that are so short staffed and overworked, that in itself seems to be a crime to me.</p>
<p>What about thinking outside the box on this one?  You find old bodies that aren&#8217;t on anyone&#8217;s immediate list, why couldn&#8217;t a lot of forensic evidence be turned over to schools that are training new staff in this area to use for on-the-job learning?  Of course they&#8217;d need to retain some of the dna/proof for legal purposes, assuming the students managed to come up with leads.  Or at least have protocols that allow the leads they come up with to be legally valid.</p>
<p>I know they have the decomposition cadaver fields for forensics training, but seems they could use the experience on real situations, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Joon</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20374</link>
		<dc:creator>Joon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20374</guid>
		<description>From what I've read and heard, part of the problem with solving old cases is - as always - money. Right now there are plenty of tools available to solve murders new and old, but many of them suck resources. 

Sure, the families of those whose bodies would be found would probably say the cost is worth it...but would the rest of the taxpayers? 

I have to wonder whether the average citizen understands what goes into identifying a body, let alone finding a body, and that all of it costs money. Idaho has quite a few unsolved missing persons cases, but I'm sure many of you saw the PR article about how understaffed (due to lack of money) the state forensics lab is and that the turnaround for information is often outside of 6 months. 

The state is going to try to solve the cases that are most likely to be solved and get a conviction - they are the ones in the citizens' best interests overall. 

Finding a body is expensive. Finding names of missing individuals who are possible matches is expensive. Actually identifiying that body with any of the possible matches is also very expensive. And after all of that it's entirely possible that none of the identified matches are in fact a match. 

That's why I have to wonder at the "worth" of excavating the Manson ranch, in particular if it dips into California's taxpayer dollars since the bodies are very likely not from California. The bodies of hitchhikers could be from New Jersey, Texas, any other state *or* any other country...taxpayers are not likely to want to endorse spending their money on that endeavor. An unfortunate part of being seperated into states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I&#8217;ve read and heard, part of the problem with solving old cases is - as always - money. Right now there are plenty of tools available to solve murders new and old, but many of them suck resources. </p>
<p>Sure, the families of those whose bodies would be found would probably say the cost is worth it&#8230;but would the rest of the taxpayers? </p>
<p>I have to wonder whether the average citizen understands what goes into identifying a body, let alone finding a body, and that all of it costs money. Idaho has quite a few unsolved missing persons cases, but I&#8217;m sure many of you saw the PR article about how understaffed (due to lack of money) the state forensics lab is and that the turnaround for information is often outside of 6 months. </p>
<p>The state is going to try to solve the cases that are most likely to be solved and get a conviction - they are the ones in the citizens&#8217; best interests overall. </p>
<p>Finding a body is expensive. Finding names of missing individuals who are possible matches is expensive. Actually identifiying that body with any of the possible matches is also very expensive. And after all of that it&#8217;s entirely possible that none of the identified matches are in fact a match. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I have to wonder at the &#8220;worth&#8221; of excavating the Manson ranch, in particular if it dips into California&#8217;s taxpayer dollars since the bodies are very likely not from California. The bodies of hitchhikers could be from New Jersey, Texas, any other state *or* any other country&#8230;taxpayers are not likely to want to endorse spending their money on that endeavor. An unfortunate part of being seperated into states.</p>
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		<title>By: reader</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20362</link>
		<dc:creator>reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20362</guid>
		<description>The Ted Bundy book written by Ann Rule discusses in the last few chapters which Pocatello girl he admitted to killing.  Lynette Culver, a Alameda student, went missing in May of 1975.  By the time these other girls were missing here in Idaho, I believe Bundy was locked up. 

I am awaiting to see what happens with the Cindy Bringhurst murder investigation. She was the babysitter who disappeared, body found later. A now retired detective told me his theory on who did it and I hope something comes to light sometime.  The police keep tempting the media with how close they are to solving those old murders, but nothing seems to come of it. 

I, too, agree the families of those buried on Manson's old stomping grounds need to have some sort of closure, if indeed they can figure out who any of the remains belong to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Ted Bundy book written by Ann Rule discusses in the last few chapters which Pocatello girl he admitted to killing.  Lynette Culver, a Alameda student, went missing in May of 1975.  By the time these other girls were missing here in Idaho, I believe Bundy was locked up. </p>
<p>I am awaiting to see what happens with the Cindy Bringhurst murder investigation. She was the babysitter who disappeared, body found later. A now retired detective told me his theory on who did it and I hope something comes to light sometime.  The police keep tempting the media with how close they are to solving those old murders, but nothing seems to come of it. </p>
<p>I, too, agree the families of those buried on Manson&#8217;s old stomping grounds need to have some sort of closure, if indeed they can figure out who any of the remains belong to.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Vandal</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20319</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Vandal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20319</guid>
		<description>I'm also thinking of Amber Hoopes, and that 9 year old girl from Salmon about ten years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also thinking of Amber Hoopes, and that 9 year old girl from Salmon about ten years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: babs</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20316</link>
		<dc:creator>babs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20316</guid>
		<description>3333, I see your point, but I meant closure to the extent that these parents don't know WHAT happened to their child or loved one;  I guess knowing they were dead and presumably, at peace, would be so much better than agonizing over what 
"might have" happened to them.  But you are right about the "closure" sought at funerals and the like.  I think only time brings that kind of acceptance of a death as a fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3333, I see your point, but I meant closure to the extent that these parents don&#8217;t know WHAT happened to their child or loved one;  I guess knowing they were dead and presumably, at peace, would be so much better than agonizing over what<br />
&#8220;might have&#8221; happened to them.  But you are right about the &#8220;closure&#8221; sought at funerals and the like.  I think only time brings that kind of acceptance of a death as a fact.</p>
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		<title>By: 3333</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20314</link>
		<dc:creator>3333</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20314</guid>
		<description>I have to agree that if one of my loved ones was missing, I would want to know what happened to them.  But as for closure, is there really such a thing?  I have had people tell me that that is why we have funerals -- for closure.  But I have never experienced closure after a funeral.  Time (for me anyway) is the only way that I have ever experienced anything even resembling what I think is closure.  When it comes right down to it, I guess I don't really know what closure is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree that if one of my loved ones was missing, I would want to know what happened to them.  But as for closure, is there really such a thing?  I have had people tell me that that is why we have funerals &#8212; for closure.  But I have never experienced closure after a funeral.  Time (for me anyway) is the only way that I have ever experienced anything even resembling what I think is closure.  When it comes right down to it, I guess I don&#8217;t really know what closure is.</p>
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		<title>By: babs</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20313</link>
		<dc:creator>babs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20313</guid>
		<description>As a mom, I have to think, those bodies are the bodies of someone's daughter or son;  they have a right to know what happened to their loved one.  

Okay switching serial killers here:  Anyone know about the girl who disappeared from a junior high in Pocatello when Ted Bundy was roaming the NW corridor?  I have read many books on the subject; some state affirmatively that she was a victim of Bundy, but he denied it, even at the end when he was confessing to everything to avoid the chair;  curious if anyone was around Poky at the time? That was before my time but I just wondered. Such a small town and yet all these odd murders/disappearances in Poky:  Jerilyn Underwood, Nori Jones, the girl from the junior high..........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a mom, I have to think, those bodies are the bodies of someone&#8217;s daughter or son;  they have a right to know what happened to their loved one.  </p>
<p>Okay switching serial killers here:  Anyone know about the girl who disappeared from a junior high in Pocatello when Ted Bundy was roaming the NW corridor?  I have read many books on the subject; some state affirmatively that she was a victim of Bundy, but he denied it, even at the end when he was confessing to everything to avoid the chair;  curious if anyone was around Poky at the time? That was before my time but I just wondered. Such a small town and yet all these odd murders/disappearances in Poky:  Jerilyn Underwood, Nori Jones, the girl from the junior high&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nemesis</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20309</link>
		<dc:creator>Nemesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20309</guid>
		<description>I'm for history and closure, no matter how difficult it might be to figure out who they are now, or exactly what happened to them.  

I'd hate to have a loved one missing for all these years and have the police have leads that they choose not to follow up on because they are short staffed or under budgeted or feel it's not going to get them a collar or conviction, or they won't be able to identify the remains.  (Not worth it, as you wondered.)

Good article.  I was in LA/Orange Co during those years and it was pretty scary when all hell broke loose.  We ran away to Idaho in 1970 (had vacationed here earlier) to get away from the craziness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m for history and closure, no matter how difficult it might be to figure out who they are now, or exactly what happened to them.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d hate to have a loved one missing for all these years and have the police have leads that they choose not to follow up on because they are short staffed or under budgeted or feel it&#8217;s not going to get them a collar or conviction, or they won&#8217;t be able to identify the remains.  (Not worth it, as you wondered.)</p>
<p>Good article.  I was in LA/Orange Co during those years and it was pretty scary when all hell broke loose.  We ran away to Idaho in 1970 (had vacationed here earlier) to get away from the craziness.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Vandal</title>
		<link>http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20308</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Vandal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idahofallz.com/2008/03/17/charles-mansons-helter-skelter-revisited/#comment-20308</guid>
		<description>I think they should go for it. I don't think it matters how many decades pass, the families still want closure. Just look at all the remains still being sought from the Korean and Vietnam wars.

Anyone know if this technology can be used here in Idaho? We have a few missing persons that we may be able to find with this technique...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they should go for it. I don&#8217;t think it matters how many decades pass, the families still want closure. Just look at all the remains still being sought from the Korean and Vietnam wars.</p>
<p>Anyone know if this technology can be used here in Idaho? We have a few missing persons that we may be able to find with this technique&#8230;</p>
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